Podcast: Should've Said No, Tell Me Why, Untouchable, The Other Side of the Door
Welcome to STARBUCKS LOVERS: A TAYLOR SWIFT PODCAST, a podcast that goes through Taylor Swift’s entire musical catalog — chronologically. We are back for season two and it seems only fitting that we should be discussing Taylor Swift’s second album and first re-release FEARLESS.
Today we’ll be discussing four tracks from this album and its very editions. But before we get to that, I need to introduce a returning STARBUCKS LOVERS. Joining me today are Noor-Hal and Candace!
Starbucks Lover Episode 12 Transcript
Maggie: Welcome to Starbucks lovers, a Taylor Swift podcast, a podcast that goes through Taylor Swift's entire musical catalog. Chronologically. We are back with season two and it seems only fitting of course, that we should still be discussing Taylor Swift's second album. And first pre-release. Today, we'll be discussing four songs from the album, but first we need to introduce our Starbucks lovers.
Please join me in welcoming back Noor-Hal hall, a beloved waffle panelist.
Noor-Hal: Hello there.
Maggie: And the geeky waffle herself, Candace.
Candace: Hi, just off to the side, trying to get Bucky to also come because he's a big Taylor swift fan too.
Maggie: I know Bucky loves Taylor Swift
Candace: folklore is his favorite. Exactly. Folklore just chills him out. He's like, I'm relaxed. I'm just in the vibe. He's like cottage core please.
Maggie: And I feel he really entered his reputation era back when he was going through his little fight with baby Yoda.
Candace: Oh my gosh. Yes. And he gets all flirty with other dogs in the dog park. Like his lover phase he just fall in love, left and right.
Maggie: Oh, I love that for him. What viewers can't see is, or listeners can't see, cause this is not a viewable podcast is Candace's very adorable pupper.
Candace: He just a big fan of the podcast too. He wanted to be involved.
Maggie: Excellent. We always love to have Bucky involved in our podcasts.
So in recent Taylor swift news there hasn't been a lot because of course our fear used did not come true. There was no music on the 13th because Taylor is just torturing us.
Candace: Taylor keeps trending on Twitter and it's stressing me out.
Maggie: It stresses me out. Sometimes I'll see tweets you know how your phone will send you tweets that I think she wants to see.
And it's always somebody pretending that new Taylor swift music dropped and it drives me. Crazy because she is teasing us. She has not giving us more. We records our new music. She's just leaving us out to dry and it is killing me. I have to respect her. She's out here getting to become Dr. Swift, lots of things going on in her life. I will forgive her for not giving me new music. We did get some like fun Taylor swift news recently. Robert de Niro said that he owns all of her albums. So welcome to the army. I know love that for him. The Summer I Turned Pretty, comes out soon on prime video and it features the rerecord of this love and they keep teasing Sparks Fly, and it's killing me.
Is it coming? Are we getting it
Candace: speak now keeps trending too get. I don't know. And it drives me nuts because I feel like it's her next Taylor's version,
Maggie: right? It has to be it's if we go off of what was on the wall and the man, then yes. If she's changed then no, but like maybe.
Candace: Just like our crazy theory board yeah.
Maggie: The Swifties are hungry. We were starving. We are withering without you. But we do get the rerecord slowly, but surely in weird places. Which I love that for her. I have the screeners for the summer I turned pretty, but I have not watched it yet. So I cannot confirm whether or not sparks flies show up or not. I feel like if it did in fact show up, it would have already leaked. But fingers crossed. They did just renew it for season two. So maybe that's a track they're planning to use for season two, which means maybe we don't get rerecord until the next year.
Who knows? It's just a guessing game. And that as much as I love theories, I'm trying not to theorize too much anymore because every single one has been wrong. Doesn't stop me everywhere. Clown makeup, every single time I'm going to run out of that palette before the end of the. We did get another fun news story, which was one of the new stories that like popped up on my phone.
Like, this is a story you might be interested in. And I was the Jonas brothers are on tour playing. I feel like I am in my teen years again, cause I'm very excited about that. Even though I have no interest in going to the club. But at a recent concert, they played much better, which of course was like a response song to Taylor swift back in the day.
And Joe Jonas changed up the lyrics. So now, instead of singing, now I'm done with superstars and all their tears on her guitar. He sings now. I'm cool with superstars.
Noor-Hal: Nice
Maggie: growth. I love that. Mr. Perfectly fine. Has finally grown up.
Candace: I know. What is it? The golden, oh gosh.
What's that folklore song? A golden string.
Maggie: . Oh yes.
Candace: Where's she's all like I send in their baby's presence now.
Maggie: I've think they got another one on the way now. More presents coming.
Noor-Hal: I know
Maggie: yes, winter is coming. But that just made me really happy. As somebody who was a, and still is a fan of the Jonas brothers, that whole little riff between them always hurt a little bit.
So that, that mended some broken fences, not to accidentally bring up the five holes in the fence theory, which speaking of theories that were irresponsible, theorizing. So many things that Taylor has done to torment us. But speaking of songs from back in the day today we will be discussing four tracks from fearless, including a cover from an unexpected band as so today we will be discussing, should have said no. Tell me why untouchable and the other side of the. So starting out, we are going to be talking about, should have said no, which was written by Taylor swift for her self-titled debut.
And it clocks in at four minutes and four seconds. Now you might be thinking, wait, is this deja VU? I think we already talked about this song and we have, but trust me, this fits in with fearless and that era, because in addition to playing should have said no, during the fearless tour, She also included this track on the international mix.
And it sounds a lot different from how it sounded on the debut album. Like I said last season, I really do love the song, but I think I like this particular mix even more. There's just something, a little edgier about it. Something even, more mature, even though it was from a very similar time period, only about a year afterwards when the mix was released.
And I just there's something about it. A little bit more than how it sounds on debut. And I do think it's interesting that this was a track that was included on the international mix. And just the fact that it was one of the debut tracks that she incorporated into the fearless era. And it feels like maybe it was one of those songs that could have been a holdover that she could have kept for this album.
And maybe this was her way of like adding it into the album that it fit more. In a small way. So I'm going to start with Candace. What do you think about this version of should have said? No. And are there any other versions of should've said no, that she liked more.
Candace: So I was listening to both of them.
I was like doing 30 seconds and 30 seconds and the other to hear the difference. Cause I wasn't as familiar with the international mix and there's an electric guitar. There's no violin in the mix. It's just another great, like solo written song that she wrote all by herself as a teen. And it feels like it's like a sister to tell me why it has that same, feeling to it.
So it makes sense that they put it on this album and yeah, I love it. ACM performance, where she's first in a hoodie and jeans, and then she spreads her arms out and her two background dancers pull apart her costume and she's in a black dress and then it starts raining and then she's goes through the rain and she just singing her heart out.
And it's just so dramatic. I love it so much.
Maggie: Taylor's costume changes on stage have always been an absolute spectacles who bear witness to,
Candace: cause she has like a hood over her head and you're like, what are you doing, Taylor?
Where's your pretty dressed?
Maggie: And it matches the theme and the style of the song, like so well, it's such a good performance
Candace: she's wearing her post breakout outfit, hoodie to think comfy, but then she's like, You should have said, no, this isn't my fault.
So then, screaming in the rain, her favorite thing.
Maggie: Yes. And we will get to that a little bit later on as well, because there's some more rain imagery. She's very fond of that.
Candace: She not from florida where so much rain or Seattle
Maggie: yeah, seriously. I can't think of Disney world without thinking that every day at about three o'clock it rains when you're at Disney world, Taylor swift may not be from Florida, but she understands, speaks to me. Yes. Nor Hal what do you think of this song? Do you like one version more than the other? Are you a debut through and through.
Noor-Hal: I think, I agree with you when you said about what Canada said that it feels like that tell me why.
And this one could be like a B side. Like when they used to release the single and a B side, they could pay together. They pair up together so well, and I liked the international mix. I was listening to also. The debut version has obviously its beauty, but I think the international Meeks has this ad, like that makes that extra bonus that makes you feel like, yeah, it goes so well along with fearless.
And I enjoy checking the lyrics and saying, okay, how has this five? And you mention it before that. The why like asking why that, the reasons behind, but obviously this song has this flavor, that the guy or the other person has to face the consequences of their actions. But at one point there's one beat.
What do you say? Did I did something wrong. There's was something that I should have done better, but I like of this song, how is just a minimal part of it? The whole song is as focused on a is your fault, mate. You did it wrong. You should have said no, I love that.
Maggie: I like that too. And I like that.
We all thought of Tell Me why? And I don't think it's just because it is the next song that we're going to be talking about. I think there might be a reason. Yeah. Track was included on the international version of fearless, because it does pair so nicely with songs on the fearless album. Like tell me why, because it matches the tone and matches the kind of questioning.
There's even some kind of connection to other side of the door, which we talk about later on, because it has this questioning, like whose fault is it? Tell me why this broke down. To some extent, I feel very adolescent. Even though I wouldn't say that it gets any easier and having relationships when you get older or that there's any more clarity into why things fall apart or why you break down.
There is a bit of more maturity that happens when you're older. People do talk a little bit more about like why this relationship didn't work, have the debriefing after the breakup that you don't always get when you're a teenager and grappling with those feelings and figuring out like who's at fault, I think is a.
The light and some of Taylor's earlier stuff, and it does add a lot new like emotions and feelings to with re- records and stuff like that. We get to see a lot of that more reflective kind of look at these youthful, sometimes, overwrought reactions to relationships, which are.
Candace: all a fearless is like a hormonal mess. Oh, it's just like, this irrational teenage love and breakups and stuff like that. And it's just right there in this album. And it's very much like, like a time capsule that takes you back because yeah, this could have been somebody she was with for like a month, finished just completely extreme.
Because that's how
Maggie: you, because time feels so much longer when you're young and then once you hit like college time, So short things feel so much more like truncated, like a month feels like a day and things like that, because just things are so you're busy and you're keeping busy and things are making your time like fly.
But when you're young and those like first relationships and like those first loves, they feel like they last forever. And you see that. Like teenagers today who are like happy one week, baby, happy, four weeks, baby happy. 48 days. We would last this long. Like you've been together for two months.
Yeah.
Noor-Hal: But then it's like Taylor said, when you are young, they assume, you know nothing. So yeah.
Maggie: Yeah. Maybe they do know something. Maybe we should be counting everyday or with people.
But going off of these very hormonal emotions, Tell me, why is the perfect track to talk about next? It is the eighth song on fearless and it clocks in at three minutes and 20 seconds. This is a song that swift wrote with Liz rose, after venting about a situation that she was going through, which sparked the.
I'm sick and tired of your attitude. I feel like I don't even know you. That was apparently like Liz asked her like, what's going on. And that's what she said. And they were like, we have to make this into a song. This is perfect. And so this vent session turned into an entire song that I think a lot of people even non Swifties know, because I feel like this is something I've seen.
People referenced quite frequently because it does very much relate to so many of those. Angsty teenage vibes, which is just so much fun. There's a couple of lyrics. I really really liked that. I just wanted to like highlight that I think really tap into this raw, angry, vulnerable. Feelings from the song.
And there also lyrics that I like totally remember being obsessed with when I was younger. But it's the, you tell me that you've loved me, then you cut me down and I need you like a heartbeat. I feel like I've used that line and fixed before because it's I need you like a heartbeat, like.
I need you to live baby. Like it's such a fun lyric and so creative. And then there's the, you asked me for my love, and then you pushed me around, which is like this classic, hot and cold. Very much. Perfect for those on again, off again. As you can tell the sh the song definitely shows up my ship playlist on Spotify, because I like instantly relate this to ships.
And then there's why do you have to make me feel so small? So you can feel whole inside, which is just such a fun. It's not fun, but it's fun because it really captures that feeling of having somebody who makes you feel a little, because they don't feel like big enough. And I think it's such a good lyric that really illuminates that feeling with this particular relationship that she's talking about.
But I want to hear which lyrics to stand out to you.
Noor-Hal: You mentioned one, the heartbeat and I, it makes me remember breathe the piece where she says, I can't breathe without you, but I have to. And I like how this the imagery of asking for explanation question in the motives comes later on other songs like.
You get the girl when you left her alone, I never told her why, or even the Taylor version of Mr. Perfectly fine, which he, Mr. Never told me why. So it comes along in, in her songs, but I really enjoyed the intro with the fiddle. If you haven't heard the lyrics, it gets you like, oh yeah, this is like, yeah.
And then you listen is oh yeah, that's the angry and relatable song. But going back to what you said about why you have to make me so small as small too, so you can feel wholeness and then why you have to put my down my dreams. So you're the only thing on my mind is those feelings of, yeah. Those relationships.
There were moments where yeah, there can be warning lights about certain situations.
Candace: It's like a red flag song, like toxic. She's saying like you have a mean streak, you have a temper. So it sounds like someone like with anger issues and it's like, Taylor run, and she says, makes me run for cover when you're around.
Which almost sounds like it's going to be violent, yeah. So it makes me uncomfortable, but I'm also like you're getting out. Good. Get out.
Yes. But like, yeah, just telling someone like, you love them and then you like insulting. Just, it's a very controlling manipulative relationship. And it's just like all the red flags are there.
Maggie: Every single one. I agree. And it. I don't know. It's such a good song to look back at once you are older and you see those red flags.
Cause I definitely don't feel like the song is fully aware of those red flags. Like it's not a song written to highlight them. It's a song that's written very straight. And then when you're older, you look back at it. You're like, oh. Which is like a lot of relationships are that way too. you don't see those red flags until you have that hindsight to look back at them and be maybe she, might've not even been aware of those red flags when she was writing it.
But through like the process got to like.
Candace: Dear john. She realized some of those red
Maggie: flags she gets there. She gets
Candace: there takes some time, but she got there.
Maggie: Yes. It's unfortunate that she's been with quite a few fellows that perhaps some red flags.
Yeah, there's a few, I could think of John Mayer, Jake Gyllenhaal, Calvin Harris.
Candace: It just feels like it's someone yelling to their friend while they're out for drinks and saying they're horrible, they're this, it's like, just break up with them. Taylor, like
Noor-Hal: venting
Maggie: don't even ask why don't ask why just move on.
Noor-Hal: No explanations, no justification.
Maggie: Yes. Find somebody else who mend all of those broken hearts. Any other last thoughts about, tell me why
Candace: you could write a book on how to ruin someone's perfect day,
Maggie: which again is like such a red flag. Yeah,
Candace: someone's having a good day. Just bringing them down. Just negative.
Maggie: Yes, because you can't stand seeing somebody happy. Yes. So many red flags. So basically tell me why is a cautionary tale about a man that is literally just like the thing that would terrify a bull is a giant red flag. Just a trash human being.
Candace: Oh yeah. I hope, whoever she wrote that about listen to it and be like, oh no,
I need help.
Maggie: I'd be like, oh, I should call a therapist. Yeah. Yes. The next song is not filled with red flags. And it is not a song that Taylor wrote this is untouchable, which was the second track on the fearless platinum edition. And it clocks in at an oppressive five minutes and 11 seconds. Now this song is a cover of a rather unknown band who at the time was opening for a hoop stank. I don't know if that's how you actually say that band's name. I've never looked it up, but my mom and I have called each other hoop stink for as long as the reason has played on the radio as a funny nickname. So very sorry to the band who stank, that is not how you say your name, but the Luna halo opened for them. And this was one of the songs that they played. It is obviously by the same name. So she did not change the name when she did the cover. And if you listen to the two songs, they are almost unrecognizable. I remember the first time I actually heard the Luna halo version of.
The song. And I was like, is this a really weird sounding song? And then I heard a lyric and I was like, wait, isn't that? The lyrics to that one Taylor swift song. And then I looked up the history to it and it was just like, this is so weird because the original song does not sound like something that Taylor would listen to and be like, oh yeah, I totally want to do a cover.
And they seemed really receptive to her cover. In fact, they did a cover of her cover, just endearing and they seem really happy that she did a cover of their song, which just made me happy. And because of this the original songwriters received a credit on the album and that would be Carrie Barlow, Nathan Barlow and Tommy Lee James.
Now Taylor did do some rewrites to the song they're very subtle. At the beginning of the second verse, she changed, it's hurtful to it's half full and I won't wait here all day. And then she also changed. I know you think that I'll be here anyway, too. I know you're saying that you'd be here anyway. And then she also changed the lyric.
And in the middle of the night, when I'm in this dream too, in the middle of the day, Waking from the stream. I think both work really well with the emotion and the kind of imagery that she's conveying with her version of untouchable. Untouchable is one of my favorite Taylor swift songs. I have used the song on so many fanfics.
As titles, as inspiration as Spotify, playlist songs, like this song just hits so many emotional beats that I love for my ships. And it just makes me very happy. And it also makes me hope that maybe we'll see Taylor doing more covers someday. She really hasn't done many, she's done a few and she's on tour which seems to be like the norm for touring artists.
Friends song and cover it or do stuff like that. But I would love to see her add more of these to future tracks, especially now that she has broken out of her more familiar genres and she's exploring different styles and themes and stuff like that would love to see it happen. I'm sure there's a reason she doesn't do as many covers anymore, especially with how sums with these react to lyric changes.
But I hope that what they would be. More of that. So Candace, what are your thoughts on this cover?
Candace: So I think this was like a live journal. No, maybe not live journal. Maybe tumblr no live journal. It was live journal. It was live journal back in the day kids. There used to be like fan playlist and you could download them not legally fan playlist. I had the fearless album. I just didn't have the platinum version because I didn't know. That was a thing at the time. And yeah, I didn't like Twilight, but I love me some Taylor. So I was like, oh, listen to any music she does. And honestly, I didn't know this wasn't one of her songs until I looked at the show notes and I was like, what?
Excuse me. And listening to the original it's night and day. Yes. And it did feel like a departure from her other songs, but I thought, oh, maybe Taylor's experimenting with a one and that's why it's just a bonus track, but yeah. Yeah. I really would love that she did more covers. She does one.
I think she does some based on where she is. Like she did like drops of Jupiter because she was where trains from, it was such a cute, such a nice
Maggie: cover. Yes. I love that cover as well. So maybe if she does tours again, we'll get some experimentation. I'm sure. I'm sure she worries about that.
There is a very credible rumor about that, that I didn't talk about at the beginning, but we can insert it. And at the end of the episode, we'll talk a little bit more about that. Talk about that because I don't want to leave nor hal out. Cause I feel like you have a few thoughts about the song as well.
Noor-Hal: , this is an fearless taylor version was my first experience and of this album and untouchable was one of my favorite to begin with, but it's one of those songs that makes you feel like, oh, I want to fall in love. I want to be in love because all the emotion, the raw feeling that Taylor in print, do the performance and like you all say
it's night and day, both versions. I even thought to be honest when punk rock covers were a thing, I thought it was a cover of Taylor's song. It was the only way around. That's what I thought. The way, the structure, the musical structure she gives to her version is so powerful. And I love how she uses even some imagery from a million little stars calling out your name.
It shows up later in the moment I knew from red, but the opposite sense because in this one is, oh, this is amazing to fall in love to be together. Versus the moment I knew is like, yeah, it's despair because the guy didn't show up. So that's fantastic. This is one of my favorite Taylor swift songs as well, because it's such a joy to listen this the way the valid, the power team she puts to it.
Candace: And it's very simple, not that many instruments to it. So really it's like her voice
Maggie: I'm a sucker for songs that talk about stars and the night and the moon and this just like checks every box for me. The only thing else that could be like is if it was set by the sea or something like that.
Cause I love ocean imagery and songs, and I think that's one of the reasons. I didn't realize this was a cover for so long, because it feels like a Taylor swift song because of how poetic it is and how very much in tune with the imagery associated with being in love and that feeling. And like I give full credit to the original band for being able to create those lyrics.
I just think it works. So much better, not as a punk song. Oh no, I totally
Noor-Hal: agree. It reminds me all along the Watchtower, the Jimi Hendrix versus the original with Bob Dylan and. Improves enhances so much that even Bob Dylan afterwards, he's played the Jimmy Hendrix song and then they're shown instead of pace or regional.
So yeah, I chose improved, enhanced feeling into the song that I feel like you said with untouchable.
Maggie: And it's so interesting because it also gives you that ability. I see that there are some bands that write incredible lyrics, but their musical genre does not fit them at all. Because I think that.
The way that these lyrics just capture so many emotions, is that a complete disservice in the original version? Because I love punk music. Like I love alternative. I love that stuff. And I think there are certain bands that know how to use that specific genre to their benefit with some of their lyrics.
Whereas I think this one just didn't work for Lou. Halo like, yeah. Their style just didn't fit it. And I think, maybe they recognize that too, since they do play Taylor's version more often than their own. From what I've seen, I actually have no idea if this band has put out new music, like most of the stuff that I read about it was like around like 20 11, 20 12, 2013 ish.
So maybe they're still playing. Maybe they broke up who knows, but they did really enjoy her cover of this track. Yeah. And then to wrap up this episode, I felt like we had to talk about one of the songs that Taylor did write on the album. And it's another one from the platinum edition. And that song is the other side of the door, which is track number six.
And it clocks in at three minutes and 57 seconds. Now this is a song. Fully embraces Taylor Swift's country, pop aesthetic and centers around this idea of shutting out a love interest, and pushing them out of your life. And then feeling a little bit of regret about it. After that heat of the moment has passed.
And I really looked at the lyrics of the song. Like I dove headfirst into them because relistening to this track made me think of so many other songs that Taylor has written particularly songs from debut and fearless. But there are some elements that I don't talk about it. Cause I felt like I would just be talking for way too long, but there are elements of the song that I think follow through to future Taylor swift songs as well.
The first lyrics. That felt like a continuation of love story. And that would be the love story lyrics of that. You were Romeo, you're throwing pebbles, and the way that I loved you also have this idea of I'm a screaming and fighting and kissing in the rain. And then when you're looking at the other side of the door, you have this.
Lyric of, but all I want is you just stand outside my window, throw in pebbles, screaming. I'm in love with you. Wait there in the pouring rain coming back for more. And it just feels like taking these two songs. One that's from, debut one is from. Fearless. And it feels like a continuation of that.
Like, this is what she wanted. She wanted the passion, she wanted the genuine love, and then this relationship and the other side of the door, just like, didn't give that to her. She didn't get that. And I thought that was really neat to see that through line there. And then I saw like another.
Parallel with with your face and the beautiful eyes, which of course made me think of the bonus debut album track, beautiful eyes. And then the conversations with the little white lies also fit into that. And then of course, at the end we get after everything, that little black dress, because of course a Taylor swift song has to have a dress mentioned in it.
And this made me think of Tim McGraw, which has said
Candace: her dress was black because.
Maggie: Yes. So when you think of happiness, I hope you think that the little black dress, oh,
Candace: no, it wasn't. That one, it was also was what's the song where she's like in my best dress fearless. So that's why I thought it was black too, because this one and Tim McGraw, she's talking about black dresses.
Maggie: yes. See, this is why you thought it was a black dress and it's just, it's so interesting. The way that. If you want it to make a Taylor swift musical someday jutebox style, like so many of the songs. Yes. Mama Mia it so many of the songs knit together perfectly to tell an entire. The story and I don't know, she meant to do it.
Cause I know Taylor swift just out here doing a lot of crazy things and connecting the dots. But I think that is, it is just the natural part of being a creator and having these stories inside of you and they knit together on their own. So I don't know if it's an intentional thing, but I love, love.
Seeing the way, these stories feel like continuations of other stories. And I felt that way with a lot of like folk Lauren evermore, the way that she wove those stories together. And those two albums felt like the continuation of each other. And I feel like debut and fearless had a little bit of that going on themselves.
Like a lot of the same relationships that she was experiencing in real life. Bled through, into those two albums. And then we get a little bit of departure as we move into her next couple of albums, but I wouldn't know, nor hal what were the lyrics that kind of stood out to you with this track?
Noor-Hal: I think that at the beginning, when she said you called a hundred times but I'm not picking up. I love how she uses the same. You mentioned You're Not sorry. Like, you don't have to call anymore. I won't pick up the phone and even in later works like babe, I'm here on the kitchen floor.
You call, but I won't hear it or I almost do. I bet you think I remove or hate you because each time you reach out, there's no reply. So that image of. You can call hundred times. I'm not going to pick up that's the idea, but at the same time, like you said, the expectation or that wishful thinking of having a grand gesture, like waiting for me in the rain, throwing pebbles
that's fantastic how you're done with that person, but at the same time, I wish that person would come back with a great gesture and you would take him back or them back. And also there was two or was she worse worth this mess, of course it goes back to Sheila upset. No, because he says the same thing.
So I love how, like you said, it ties all together and connects the dots with when works she has done and maybe future works. Yeah. Like a couple of owl Slater, but yeah it's fantastic how you can get the same feeling.
Maggie: I agree. It's just a fun thing with her and I'm sure other. You sessions do the same thing that I'm not as intimately familiar with, but it makes something special.
I feel like for listeners, because we can make those connections, see those through lines and get something even more out of the initial intended purpose of the song. It's very fun. It's very fun. And honestly, that's one of the reasons that. Podcasts was born was because I was seeing so many of these connections between her stuff.
And it was like, why don't we just like, go back, look through all of her stuff, dive into these connections and maybe like, get an idea of what's to come. Because I feel like a lot of the songs from her origins still very much bleed through, into her new music, no matter how many genre changes she has gone through now, Candace.
Candace: So this is one of my favorites from fearless. It's on repeat constantly because I, especially like the very end, the riff where she starts with your beautiful eyes, the conversations with those little white lies, but think like, just like, she goes so hard on it. I love it. And in the Taylor version the same, but even more, it's just, it's such like, again, this is like the teenage romance, irrational love, like saying I don't want you, but I actually want you, read my mind kind of thing. Cause that's what you do when you're like 16 and
crazy
Maggie: hard to get.
Candace: Yeah. You think you act like loves the game in a way,
Maggie: and you love the game. Want to play
Candace: exactly. Like you see that in the movies, you see it in the TV show.
So you try to emulate that and you think that's what you're supposed to do. So I just feel like, again, this is another, how insane teenagers are and just you want someone doing those big gestures of you're screaming outside in the rain and throwing pebbles,
Maggie: everybody wants that guy to show up on their front lawn with a jukebox, not a jukebox that would be big with a boom box would have a box.
If a guy wants to do it, he would bring a jukebox saying let's get some wheels. If he wants to, he would.
Candace: But it's also thinking that love is like these big gestures too, that cause obviously the guy cheated and she's like, if you went on the rain and screamed a bunch, I might forgive you.
So it was just like, again, crazy teenage brain and I love it.
Maggie: Yes. And I love that. We see the evolution of that later on where love is no longer like big gestures. It's setting a place at the table. It's leaving the Christmas lights up until January. It's the little things that like life together creates and not the big moments that you try to force to happen.
Yeah. And I think she finally gets that and that makes me happy and very envious that we get these beautiful songs.
Candace: Yeah. What's the song was she's comparing two relationships cause I'm a screaming and laughing in the pouring rain
Maggie: and was screaming and laughing and crying and oh
Candace: The way I loved you.
Yeah. So this makes me think like this is one half. Like, the other half's Taylor Launter
Maggie: he did cheat on her. Didn't he did. He did like. It was more like an overt cause there, I remember at the time, I don't know if it was true or not. It was what's her face. Camilla bell, Joe Jonas. No.
Who was it? Who was it? There were some, yeah. So that was Joe Jonas, but Taylor dated somebody right after Taylor. Wow. That's really confused. And it's even worse now because he's married to another Taylor. That's weird. I know, but again, like the teenage relationships, they were all very young and I'm sure there was a lot of overlap in those.
Candace: I thought Taylor Lautner was the one she wrote back to December,
Maggie: back to the December.
Candace: So it sounded like she broke up
Maggie: with him and it's like, Hey, it was one of those things that there was like rumors, but they were never actually like really. Yeah. Back when teen Vogue was a gossip rag. Yeah.
Candace: Instead of doing like really insightful journalism, just ragging on the government. It's amazing.
Maggie: It's a beautiful evolution. We love that.
Who knew from gossip rag to taking down the government. There's literally no easy segue to talk about rumors off of taking down the government, but I'm going to try as we mentioned earlier, there is a rumor that seems fairly credible.
Considering the source came from like a reporter whose family was like associated with some sort of. Other bands, sporting something. I can't remember the exact particulars, but basically this. Tweeted out that her mom had asked her if she had or heard anything about the Taylor swift concert or something because Taylor swift had won the bid on a concert venue that their relative was trying to get, and he lost the bid on and it was an arena.
So it sounds like there's a 2023 arena tour happening. Is it the canceled lover Fest? Are we getting lover Fest again? Is it a folklore evermore third album that hasn't been released tour? , I don't know. I don't want to get my hopes up, but it has been a really long time since rep tour and I needed in my life.
Candace: What if it's like a Taylor version tour
Maggie: oh, my God. That was just, I would so many tears, so many emotions. Oh gosh. Would you go to a Taylor swift concert?
If it's outdoors, I think definitely. I'm just thinking, I'm trying to think of like, so yeah.
Candace: And I think hopefully by 2023. things are
Noor-Hal: yeah.
Candace: Fingers crossed, but I feel like Taylor knows and Taylor wouldn't do anything irresponible
Maggie: yeah. Oh yeah.
Candace: Yeah. She got Miles Teller to get vax so
Maggie: yes, and I have to say the Taylor swift of miles teller the way that man suddenly went from being like meh to very attractive, it makes me very uncomfortable, but I am a Miles Teller fan.
Candace: Oh my gosh.
Wow. Admitting that.
Maggie: I know I, Hey, I admitted it into written reviews, so it's out there. It's already public record. But going off of a Taylor swift musical and then our musical, wow. Taylor swift music video, and then the offer and then top gun Maverick miles teller can get it looking respectfully because his wife is on Tik tech talk like always putting us in our.
It's very funny. But yeah, the miles like the Taylor swift application of miles teller has been the funniest thing. Like.
Come here. We can fix this.
Candace: I bet his wife called Taylor and was like, I need some help.
Maggie: Yes. Cause their best, like they're besties. Like she's really good friends with his wife. So I think Taylor was out their wedding too. She was at two of their weddings. He was at two other. Wow. But I definitely feel like being in that music video helped the rest of his career this year.
Do you remember all the Swifties
Candace: got so mad? They reserved all mat. They bullied him into Mitty. He was back fascinated
Maggie: and then immediately they all fell in love with them. It's so funny. I, Taylor
Candace: called them like you fix this.
Maggie: And he was fine. Like, yes, whatever you say, ma'am
Candace: just looking at Swifty nation.
Maggie: He's like, whew. You do not want to get on their bad side when you have two big projects coming out. No, not at all. No. But that's been funny. It's been very funny to watch happen on Tik TOK too, because I've seen Swifties that went from being like miles teller to Ooh, miles teller. Very funny.
You should love that. Love that evolution. I feel like this entire podcast episode has been talking about evolutions and people changing and evolving and new looks on old relationships. It's very nice. It's a very cathartic way to approach this podcast. And as we're winding down, I just want to thank both of you for joining me today.
You've of course been listening to Starbucks lovers, Taylor swift podcast on the geeky waffles. Thank you so much for listening.